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What are friends for, really?

May 20, 2005 — A girl came into my office today to ask me something, it's 10:30 in the morning and she had been around since 8:30am. It was the first time I had seen her. I noticed she had a hole in her pants when she turned to leave my office, as the pants were black and she was obviously wearing a thong. The hole was right in the seam of her pants in the middle of her butt (the general crack area if you will) and it was big enough for me to stick a finger in and touch her butt (not in a sexual harrassment sort of way, more like "hey, you have a hole in your pants and I can see your butt" kind of way.) She immediately thanked me and went to find a way to handle it.

What I want to know is, why was I the first one to say something to her...what are your freakin friends for, for gods sakes!

Wirehead says:

I'm sure DOZENS of people saw it, but they were male and they're probably heading for your office now with torches and pitchforks.

jpwain says:

So what you're saying is...

lyrical warfare says:

A real friend would call up all his other friends and made sure they got to see.

Crazy Monkey says:

Notice I didn't say how small or big this girl was. You guys sure are quick to imagine the best!

rnewhouse says:

See, if a male had mentioned it, it would have been sexual harrassment. Guys are not supposed to notice and/or comment on girls' butts in the workplace. Even if said butts are flapping around in the breeze.

CJO says:

Reminds me of when you look in the mirror in the afternoon and see part of your breakfast on your face and you wonder why you've talked to twenty people that day who didn't let you know.

bob says:

Sometimes you just don't know what to say. I was in a pool, jumped out and threw my glasses on, then noticed a female friend of mine had popped out of her top without noticing. But there were about 7 other guys in the pool around who hadn't yet noticed, so I sat there trying to figure out what to do. Luckily for my friend, the second person to notice was a girl who, using some sort of secret female hand signals, alerted my friend without drawing the attention of all the other guys in the pool.

I honestly would have told her, but I didn't know how to bring it up without, 1) really embarassing her and 2) alerting all the guys there. I wonder what Miss Manners would say...

Jackson says:

I would say, rush over to cover her, and quietly mention it. If she's still in the pool, you would've had to jump back in.

lidge_34 says:

I would say, rush over to cover her, and quietly mention it. If she's still in the pool, you would've had to jump back in.


Yeah, that's not going to attract attention.

bob says:

While that's probably a good idea, it certainly didn't seem that feasable at the time. Oh well, I think it turned out ok. She was pissed at me for the next week or so, but that could have been the relentless ribbing I gave her for "unintentionally" swimming topless with a bunch of guys.

CJO says:

The "popped out of her top without noticing" story above illustrates just how different men's and women's fashion is. I would certainly notice if I popped out of my shorts.

I guess the reason is that women's clothing has become so revealing that they don't notice if a piece of it is in the right place or not. I mean, if I had a dime for every girl I've seen who doesn't seem to notice her thong showing--well, I'd only have a couple of bucks. But you get the point.

lidge_34 says:

Didn't notice? I'm the last person you want to talk to about fashion, but I'm thinking that is pretty intentional most of the time.

bob says:

Yeah, I don't know what to say. I'm definately no expert but in checking around, apparently that can happen by accident if a girl isn't as... ahem... broad-shouldered.

OneNight says:

but in checking around, apparently that can happen by accident

At least Bob is on the job and finding out those all important answers to those all important questions you never dared ask yourself!

lyrical warfare says:

Without completely generalizing, from what I'VE seen, girls spend enough time in front of the mirror in various poses in various outfits to know exactly what their clothes will do in any situation.

Crazy Monkey says:

That is very true. I can tell from the clothes hanger whether or not the clothing item will be revealing and in what way.

bob says:

At least Bob is on the job and finding out those all important answers to those all important questions you never dared ask yourself!


Taking requests now...

rnewhouse says:

The problem a girl often runs into is that she spends an hour and a half trying on a particular outfit and looking at herself in the mirror wearing it, and then, having field-tested it several times, one day gets dressed in a hurry and doesn't do the final review because she is having a bad hair day and has to handle THAT emergency, then goes to work forgetting that she gained 15 pounds since the last time she wore those particular pair of pants that week.

Men don't particularly worry about that specific disaster potential, since they just keep buckling their belts lower and lower under the beer belly.

OneNight says:

Taking requests now...

Why is it that women don't have a high regard for the opinions of their husband/boyfriend? But if someone else tells them the exact same thing, they accept it and act on it.

lyrical warfare says:

Careful bob... I have a feeling this thread is on the edge of degenerating into a violent battle of the sexes.

DataBind() says:

Men don't particularly worry about that specific disaster potential, since they just keep buckling their belts lower and lower under the beer belly.


Speaking of low waist lines: Girls, if you have...um, shall we say rolls, please for the love of god don't wear halter-tops and low-rise pants. You're not fooling anyone.

I shouldn't have to point this out.

DataBind() says:

I don't mean that as nasty as it sounds...I have some rolls too, and I promise not to wear halter-tops and low-rise pants as well.

jpwain says:

Wow, is this thread still on?

bob says:

Why is it that women don't have a high regard for the opinions of their husband/boyfriend? But if someone else tells them the exact same thing, they accept it and act on it.


That's not one I've been able to get a straight answer on. I notice the same thing though, perhaps they have to be told twice, or perhaps bad advice was given before so that's taken into account whenever advice is given. However, in my opinion, it's mostly an effort to be self-determined -- if they take your advice all the time they don't feel self-determined enough... but hey, I could be wrong.

Jackson says:

The truth of the matter is that when you lose a piece of clothing or a section, the part that is tight is either still on (giving the false sense that everything's fine) OR the part that was tight is now sore, which can give you a fake "tight" feeling.

In the case of Tara Reid's mishap, the truth is that the surgery de-sensitizes the area to some degree for a while, and on top of that, it was already a very loose and airy fabric so there wasn't much to feel.

As for the thong showing - I can't count the number of female friends who have told me it is important to angle the top of a thong so that it can occasionally peek out, because "it attracts guys". On the other hand, you need to be in good shape to pull it off without eliciting a "ugh" reaction.

Wirehead says:

Re: ignoring significant other advice: I just flatly refuse to give any style or clothing advice whatsoever. This is probably just as well because my opinion is useless on the subject anyway. I put on the first two things that come to hand when I get up in the morning. My wife has learned to "disappear" articles of clothing that do not match or "go with" literally every single other article of clothing I own, as otherwise I will magically pick the ONE thing in the closet that doesn't go with anything else. I figure if the section between my waist and mid-thigh is up it doesn't really matter, so I don't pay attention to what something LOOKS like. This helps to reinforce my refusal to offer fashion consultation.

I can't say it doesn't produce some friction now and then, though.

Her: "Does this look ok?"

Me: "Yeah. "

Her: "What about this?"

Her: "Oh... er... did you change?"

dcormier says:

No offence intended to you, Jackson, or anyone else who makes a habbit of thong showing, but to me it's always seemed a bit slutty. Granted, the rest of the outfit will vary the degree to which is seems this way, but that's just my opinion. Sorry but, I can't think of a more polite way to word that right now.

I have no doubt that it performs the function of "attracting guys", but whether or not this sort of decoration attracts the desired type of guys is another matter entirely.

Jackson says:

Not offended, as I don't wear thongs period. I prefer to be comfortable. And I agree - the sort of guys usually attracted by this show are not the kind of guys I'd ever really be interested in.

CJO says:

A visible thong definitely attracts stares, but I don't think it necessarily attracts guys at all. Whether or not I think the girl is hot, the only reason I'd go up and start a conversation is if I thought she was embarrassing herself.

With the modern guy trends of messy hair, low-riding pants and short, tight shirts, though, I actually have to tell as many guys at our school as girls that their middriffs are exposed and that they need to handle it. It really pisses me off when I have to take time out to tell a man to stop exposing his boxers or middriff. Gives you one of those "what's the world coming to" feelings.

bob says:

I can't imagine one of those things being anywhere near comfortable. Then again, the cutest shoes are the ones that make chicks feet bleed, right?

CJO says:

Or make them fall over.

Jackson says:

I never got to experience the cute-shoe, big-pain thing. My feet are so big, I have to go looking for a store that carries my size, and then choose from the shoes available. The only store that consistently carries my size is Payless, and they don't exactly have a great selection. I am so jealous of the girls who can say "What a cute shoe - can you bring me a pair of size 7 to try on?" I was only able to do that until I was 14 years old.

Wirehead says:

Bah, try it with size 15 Men's. I can't even rent bleedin' ski boots half the time. At least you can buy sneakers and stuff when you want to. I usually have to go to at least two or three shoe places before I find one that even has anything I can try on.

Anyway, I'd like to be the first to come out and say that I'm entirely pro-thong. I do wish that if people are going to expose themselves this way that they'd dispense with the pretense and just walk around pantsless, though. I figure since social mores regarding clothing are apparently moving in that direction anyway, it might as well happen soon enough that I can enjoy it.

lyrical warfare says:

Aye! Another vote for pantless!

I MUST link this Penny-Arcade strip in this topic.

jpwain says:

I'll see your PA link and raise you Get into my ear, pants!!!

Wirehead says:

My comic is more bizarre than yours.

lyrical warfare says:

IBTL!

I win.

Wirehead says:

Given that there really wasn't much rational debate here to begin with, I see no reason to lock it.

lyrical warfare says:

The number of replies to this topic has officially exceeded the prior record of 36 to "Using Gmail as a spam filter" proving definitively that Non-Content is more interesting than Content.

Dylan says:

"Prior record"? Are you kidding? Have you forgotten about the bad science post? Lord man, that thing had 200+ replies!

lyrical warfare says:

Wow you're right, I stand corrected.

Wirehead says:

That post was great. I don't think I've yet exceeded using a Nimitz aircraft carrier as a unit of measurement in terms of sheer geekiness. Plus a good chunk of the replies actually had something to do with the topic, which is unusual.

bob says:

Jackson says:

Does it count if the posts are not related to the topic? Because you could make a topic have an infinite number of replies simply by changing the topic whenever necessary to regain attention.

jpwain says:

Bob: Hahahahaha. Well played, sir.

Jackson: Topics here are only fuzzy methodologies for categorizing posts, simply a measure of probability: you cannot at one time observe both what the post says and to what thread it belongs.

bob says:

Dylan, MBoffin.com needs Statistically Improbable Phrases (SIPs) a la Amazon.com.

lyrical warfare says:

The thing is these seemingly off-topic replies are suprisingly on-topic if you look closely.

And bob, I don't think mboffin.com SIPs would be at all interesting - since the improbable is the probable on this site.

For example, probably the most improbable thing a person could post would be "Pants, get in my ear!" Yet somehow this phrase turns up quite often.

bob says:

If you look at the SIPs information on Amazon -- hell. I'll quote it...

SIPs are not necessarily improbable within a particular book, but they are improbable relative to all books in Search Inside.


I'd use it instead of the pull quote to give an idea what the topic is about. See then I wouldn't waste my time reading threads like this, that should be about thongs but ended up somewhere else entirely.

bob says:

bump

Wirehead says:

Trying to outlast the uber-thread, are we?

YOU SHALL NEVER DEFEAT US!

CJO says:

I'm not surprised the thread has lasted. Women's underwear is pretty fascinating. Lots of material there. Reminds me of the first time I entered a Victoria's Secret store. I'm too tired to elaborate, though.

Wirehead says:

I think the reason they are so fascinating is that there is so LITTLE material there.

bob says:

Right on Wirehead. There comes a point when it's like, why bother?

Wirehead says:

Well, not to get TOO personal, but I've never been a fan of lingerie to begin with. Why gild the lily? There are very few times (actually I can't think of any) when I'd rather have seen .75 square inches of satin or something as opposed to whatever was underneath it.

Of course, I absolutely HATE waiting to open presents at Christmas, and spend the entire time from the 20th to the 25th nagging whoever gave the box to me to let me open it, so I may be atypical in this respect (the huge revenues of places like Victoria's Secret would seem to argue for this).

Jackson says:

I'm fascinated by woman like Mariah Carey, who has more lingerie than I have clothes. Lingerie tends to be extremely uncomfortable (lace, especially), I'd rather wear an oversized t-shirt to bed and be warm and comfortable.

Wirehead says:

It had never occurred to me that "comfort" was even ON the list of goals for lingerie. It never seems to be a priority in things like, oh, I don't know, SHOES!, so I wouldn't think it would even enter the designer's mind for something that doesn't hamper mobility.

I also don't understand why people wear ANYTHING to bed. I mean, people go out and get those $240 Egyptian alligator pubic hair 2400 thread count sheets, then they put on two or three layers of CLOTHES (underwear, PJ's, parka...) to go to bed. What's up with that? If you hate your sheets so much that you're going to wear a suit to bed, just go sleep on the couch.

rnewhouse says:

Comfort not an issue in lingerie? Are you kidding? I don't understand people who wear fancy frilly stuff with pointy bits next to their skin all day. I even cut the labels out of most of my clothes.

I even more don't understand people who wear lingerie on the outside of their clothes, or let their dingy bra straps or baggy boxers show.

But fancy lingerie for entertainment is something else again.

bob says:

Well, no pain, no gain. Honestly though, look how much torture a women have gone through to go through to "look good." Foot bindings, corsettes, etc? I don't know any guy that would put up with this kind of crap.[/troll]

Wirehead says:

I bet Richard Simmons would.

CJO says:

I even more don't understand people who wear lingerie on the outside of their clothes, or let their dingy bra straps or baggy boxers show.

Gotcha on the straps and boxers, but honestly, who wears lingerie outside their clothes? Besides superheroes, I mean.

dcormier says:

Well, no pain, no gain. Honestly though, look how much torture a women have gone through to go through to "look good." Foot bindings, corsettes, etc? I don't know any guy that would put up with this kind of crap.[/troll]


You forgot waxing.

rnewhouse says:

honestly, who wears lingerie outside their clothes?

They're called bustiers. Madonna made them famous in a big way. Here's a nifty guide to lingerie and how to wear it.

bob says:

Ohh... waxing and plucking! Forgot about those. Although in these cases, it is better than the alternative.

DataBind() says:

Waxing? At least women don't have to shave their necks.

bob says:

I don't find that particularly painful though...

Wirehead says:

To hell with necks. Women don't have to shave their FACES, and they really don't have to shave anything else if they don't want to, either. If a GUY has a beard or looks a little scraggly, it's "unprofessional". If a woman hasn't bathed or shaved her legs/pits in a couple months, it's "liberated" and means you have to hire her or you get hit with a discrimination lawsuit.

I *HATE* shaving. If I could just REMOVE all of my facial hair at one go and never have to mess with it again, even if it was excruciatingly painful, I would do it in a second. As it is I shave as little as possible, which is 3 to 5 times per week, and have to use shaving products other people make fun of even at that (triple-edge razors, fruity expensive shaving cream, etc).

As long as I'm on the subject, how come women can wear virtually anything they want to and it's acceptable (men's suits, skirt, dress, shorts, lingerie) in a business environment, but a guy has to wear slacks, closed-toed shoes, and a button-down shirt, and even at that gets funny looks if he wears a short-sleeve one, at a MINIMUM?

RISE, OPRESSED MALES! THROW OFF THE YOKE OF FEMALE DOMINATION!

rnewhouse says:

OK Wirehead, I want to see a photo posted here tomorrow evening of you in lederhosen, a bustier, open-toe high heels, and some sparkly hair jewelry. At work.

Wirehead says:

My bustier is in for repairs. The Kevlar reinforcing straps weren't enough to contain my massive femininities.

dcormier says:

You're right, DataBind(), they don't have to shave their necks. However, they shave a much greater area than most guys do.



Wirehead, you should see my office. I could go to work in sweats and no one would care.

Ahh, the joys of working at a geek shop...

lidge_34 says:

honestly, who wears lingerie outside their clothes?


How about Under Armor? I know it isn't really lingerie, but that's basically how it got started. When the founder was first selling the concept, people thought, "What guys would ever wear underwear like that?" And now it's an enormously successful business.

My hatred of shaving is why I currently have a beard. I still have to shave my neck, but I can get away with every other day, which I couldn't otherwise do. And I only have to trim my beard ever couple weeks or so.

CJO says:

honestly, who wears lingerie outside their clothes? Besides superheroes, I mean.

They're called bustiers. Madonna made them famous in a big way.

Well, I meant besides superheroes and crazy people.

Anyway, since when did Under Armour count as underwear? From what I heard, they started out making clothes for college football teams. I know they also make underwear, but I don't think you could consider their regular stuff in the same category.

This is off on a tangent now, but I want to know if anybody else has experienced a strange phenomenon at Victoria's Secret. The first time I ever entered the store was several years ago when I was doing Christmas shopping and wanted to get something for the girl I was dating at the time. I felt I would be lost and bewildered trying to shop there by myself, however, so I had one of our mutual friends go with me. She led the way and I obediently followed.

I noticed, however, that I was not the only guy following a girl through the store. In fact, every single guy in the store was trailing obediently after a girl. There were some women shopping on their own, but every single guy had his girlfriend/guide/chaperone/whatever there in front of him.

Seems most guys would have felt as lost as me. Or thought they'd look like perverts if they went in by themselves. I'm not sure which of the two it was.

Anyway, anyone else observed this?

Wirehead says:

It is wise to have a companion who knows the area with you when entering enemy territory, comrade.

lyrical warfare says:

Yeah basically the only correct way for a guy to be in Victoria Secret is trailing obediently behind his woman like a beaten lap dog. Anything else is perverted. How do guys buy VS stuff for their girl then? The Internet.

Jackson says:

The morning show on a local radio station this a.m. was talking about how certain qualities can seem to advertise that a girl is "easy". They invited guys to call in and say what they felt advertised an "easy" girl. Intentionally displaying their thong or bra strap was the #1 response - having a tongue-piercing was #2, a tattoo in the small of her back was #3, and it just went on from there.

lyrical warfare says:

Wow, but I disagree about the bra strap. Who wants to see a girl's bra strap??

Jackson says:

That's not attractive?

A woman called in and said "fish-net stockings" but I think she must've been a bit whacko. Who the heck wears those anymore? And if they did - would it seriously send the message "I'm easy"?

I always thought that excessive makeup (particularly eye makeup) would be a good sign, but no one suggested that.

dcormier says:

A woman called in and said "fish-net stockings" but I think she must've been a bit whacko. Who the heck wears those anymore? And if they did - would it seriously send the message "I'm easy"?


Competitive/professional ballroom dancers wear fishnets (flesh colored). And no, if I saw a woman wearing those I wouldn't think she was easy. It generally takes an entire mock up send that signal. Or at least, for me to get that impression. But I'm generally oblivious to the intentions of women. You people need to be less subtle, damn it.

Wirehead says:

Last summer I suddenly realized that this girl I knew was hitting on me when I was 17. I'll turn 27 this September.

No, I'm not kidding.

bob says:

A t-shirt that says "I'm easy" usually does it.

Jackson says:

A couple years ago, my godsister dated a guy that I had gone to school with. She was dating him when we were about 23, and I hadn't seen him since we were about 8. I had actually been terrified of him in school because he was a big kid, and always looked at me funny. He told my godsister that he had a huge crush on me while we were in school together.

How was I to know? I thought he wanted to kill me!!

jpwain says:

- - - - - - - - - thread over, cut here - - - - - - - - -

bob says:

bump

dcormier says:

Then again, the cutest shoes are the ones that make chicks feet bleed, right?


Or make them fall over.


I'm pretty sure that's one of the origins of the woman holding onto the man's arm as they make an enterance: she doesn't want to fall over.

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